Hi Shannon! Glad to meet you! Can always use another friend! I totally agree with you. I've lurked so long I too recognize names, avatars and perk up for posts by certain members. Glad you said hi.
Kitten Whiskers
kitten whiskers
JoinedPosts by kitten whiskers
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21
A reminder to all of you....
by LivingInReality inshannon here.... a confessed "lurker" for a very, very, long time and a rare poster to the board......i just wanted to drop a quick note to all of you.. please keep doing what you're doing..providing a refuge for so many.
you all make me feel reassured that if in 4 years from now i may have a breakdown (because deprogramming is a lifelong ailment) and need to find strength and encouragement, or even just someone to hear my story and believe me...i will always know that you are all here.
no judgment, no criticism...but instead providing a way for anyone who visits this board a little challenge at times, a large amount of humor, some psychological services...and a great big dose of the real truth.. you guys are great...you make me laugh, you make me smile and you make me feel fantastic about my decision to leave by your constant reassurance that truly living is all about thinking for yourself.. i'll be sure to start posting more regularly because i'd like to start to get to know you guys better and in turn become a source of comfort, wisdom and humor to others that have gone through what we have.. hugs to you all.. shannon.
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kitten whiskers
Hi Thehypnotoad! Had to be the first to welcome hubby to the board!Kitten Whiskers
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21
what was it that made you first doubt????
by chuckyy injust wondering what it was that started you to doubt that jws had the truth??
was it doctrine?
was it people?
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kitten whiskers
It was when the society announced the plans for Patterson. (This is pre 1995 generation change, around1990). I was to graduate soon. Immediately begin aux. Pioneering and work up to reg. pioneer. I couldn't believe that with the"end being sooooo close" why they bothered.I remember looking at the information the society sent to be posted on the information board and thinking "It will be finished in 5 years. Why are they planning this? THE NEW SYSTEM WILL BE HERE!" I was told not to go to college. The time was short. It blew me away as something silly that would never happen. It's been there about 10 years now. Too bad the rest of us weren't allowed to make any plans.
Kitten Whiskers
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Good news: No longer an elder; Bad news: Disappointed wife
by doinmypart inmy wife & i have a good relationship except when it comes to things dealing with the wts.
over the past few years we've both made concessions, and i even made some headway in getting her to think about some things.
but from time-to-time we would end up arguing about something wts-related and there would be days of tension between us.. well, a few weeks ago we were having a casual conversation about wildlife in our area, she mentioned something about jehovah ruining those who ruin the earth.
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kitten whiskers
I don't know you or your wife, but I can tell you, when I had enough doubts about the wtbts to substantiate leaving, I was so scared. I kept repeating to myself "where will I go""who else serves Jehovah""I have children and a husband to help live forever". I was physically and psychologically ill thinking about it. I put myself on "full speed ahead". Tried to go to EVERY meeting, dragging 2 children while hubby at home, exhausted from work, and tired of it all. He was already mentally strong enough due to logic, he wasn't worried about God killing him or us. I was TERRIFIED to leave. Thought of all the family and friends I would lose. Spent WHOLE days in study of the bible. Wept. Talked to friends at kh about how they "knew it was the truth". I KNEW I needed to leave. I couldn't bear to put this nonsensical burden on my children. But I was stuck in Watchtower thinking. I even went so far as to ask elders for help and they set up a visit at our home as an "encouraging call". I am so BLESSED my husband with him.I broke his confidence in me. We are very private in what others outside of our marriage hear. This was much turmoil to my soul.I love him so much. At this time, I thought I had to save him. Save our family. I felt like I was watching him die spiritually and there was nothing I could do. I was watching and had to act. It was a last ditch, now or never effort.
He was upset. DESERVEDLY SO. But his love always shines through. He still can't quite understand why I did it. But it is passed. Actually, the visits we have recieved had actually deepened my doubts instead of alleviating them! The elders said some stupid things. Speculating on the scriptures and using them as words of encouragement, but taken way out of context. I too felt like your wife, that if I went to all the meetings and maybe studied harder or went in service and shared good experiences with him,maybe if I had focused on pioneering, I could have saved him.
Instead, he saved me. He supported me and took me to the Circuit assembly just because I felt I needed to go. There, I became upset and disgusted with what they were saying and told him I wanted to leave. Upon his recommendation, we waited until the lunch break so as not to cause a scene. Mind you, I had been harboring serious doubts for over a year. Doubted certain issues longer, but SERIOUS "I want to leave or figure this out" doubts for a year. We spent the rest of the time that weekend (hotel already paid for) visiting local attractions. We even went to the mall and started talking about celebrating xmas the next month. He was so happy. Then I flip-flopped. Guilty conscience. Must save us. Finally, I broke. Avoided meetings, avoided "the friends" as much as possible. Read the bible by myself and asked for holy spirit to guide me. This was like 9-10 months ago. Haven't been back. Get the guilts at time and use logic and this board to bring me back.I am learning how not to let their scare tactics dominate me. Don't give up on her. And don't push. She has to see and make up her own mind.
It was hard for my husband to trust he could open up again with his real feelings. But it is now the happiest our family has ever been. And we are a very loving family anyway. But now we get to see more of each other on meeting nights! It's a rough road. Hold on to each other. Being witnesses wasn't the ONLY reason you got married, right? baby steps my friend. baby steps.
Hope this helped.
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coming out of the woodwork
by bittersweet inok....i haven't posted on here in a really long time.
so, i just had a baby ( a girl after 3 boys, woohoo!!!
) a little less than three weeks ago.
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kitten whiskers
You poor thing! Isn't it amazing how clueless some people are! Here's hoping if any more stop- they are polite enough to bring you a wonderful already made dinner and are just stopping to drop it off because they care. Kiss your sweet baby girl for us and congratulations!
Kitten Whiskers
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HELP PLEASE - Youngster At Risk
by Joe Grundy in(i am not, never have been, a jw.
i am an apostate of the whore of babylon and have been awarded the title of honorary apostate here.).
i very recently posted about how i had come into contact with a poster on an entirely unrelated mb whose step-daughter (age about 12) was, i concluded, studying with jws along with her natural mum.
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kitten whiskers
Oops. Guess I rambled. Sorry.
I checked back to see what the rest of you said, and couldn't believe what a windbag i was.
Kitten Whiskers
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I wish every witness would seek the truth
by megsmomma inas i have been reading different posts here, i can see that it is a huge factor that the jw's are just so in the dark as to what the org.
actually does and teaches.
i had thought my experience was unique....but i can tell that it is not so.
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kitten whiskers
Congratulations!
This is an all consuming task at first-searching. But I agree with you that the holy spirit lets you read the bible in a way you were never allowed to before. As truly applying to you instead of an elite class. I still find it hard to swallow, find myself reverting at times to jw beliefs and try to fight that. God is patient with us. It is hard to accept his love when we feel so down. Thats why i love to read others experiences like yours. Keep planting those little seeds with your daughter!
Kitten Whiskers (hugs)
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HELP PLEASE - Youngster At Risk
by Joe Grundy in(i am not, never have been, a jw.
i am an apostate of the whore of babylon and have been awarded the title of honorary apostate here.).
i very recently posted about how i had come into contact with a poster on an entirely unrelated mb whose step-daughter (age about 12) was, i concluded, studying with jws along with her natural mum.
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kitten whiskers
Poor baby!
She will hear things said to make you feel guilty if she doesn't get baptised. Youth baptisms are glorified. I was raised in truth (mother jw, father not-divided household). I felt the pressure. Every assembly they tell the age of the youngest baptized and the oldest. Let's say there is an 8 year old baptized. Will he change as he grows? Yes. Does the child have a love for God. Probably. Does the child have a love for parents? Probably. As a child our whole desire is to please those closest to us. If we are a child who loves God, we are scared at the thought of his displeasure. WE WILL DO ANYTHING TO PROVE OUR LOVE.
Ask her if she loves God. She will most likely say yes. If you do too, tell her about your love for him and how you feel he has helped you in your life. The fact that Jehovah listens to prayers of non-jws is hard to comprehend for a witness.I was shocked at age 33 to learn my dear sweet worldly grandmother knew God's name was Jehovah. I told her all my doubts . She was my great comfort in all this as she always has been. We are always told people don't know God's name. When I said I really do think God's name is Jehovah she said"oh yes. of course it is!" I WAS SO SHOCKED. We went to a Southern baptist church and they sang a song that said "There's no God like Jehovah." Does she know others BESIDES jws use his name in worship and singing. Probably not. My husband (raised 3rd generation jw) and I stood there with shocked disbelief- I swear our mouths hung open. Ask her if God loves her. She may say yes, because she can read it in the bible and she hears it said from time to time at the kingdom hall. But in her heart, does she feel she is special to God and loved by him without being baptized yet? Does she know that she can dedicate her life to Jehovah through prayer and that he is reading her heart and LOVES HER for her. The bible does say to be baptized. But it also says God reads the heart. If Jehovah reads the heart, he knows her.She is most likely afraid of dying at Armageddon (we are told the unbaptized will, even though at the same time we are told God is love and won't destroy those with the right heart condition). Show her she is worthwhile as a person. The witnesses destroy your self esteem. You are NEVER good enough. You are NEVER doing enough study or field service. There is ALWAYS guilt. At such a fragile age as 12, this guilt is paralizing.
Tell her how the issue of blood is changing. The issue of using certain parts of blood are now a conscience matter. If baptized she will need to decide what and if she will use these for herself. The DPA (the document you sign for if you become unconscious and a representative to make medical decisions for you) allows you to put down what blood fractions you will accept if any. If a witness in good conscience will accept certain fragments it is not looked down upon. But where will these fractions come from. NO JW CAN GIVE BLOOD FOR THESE TO BE MADE. Sounds pretty odd. You can accept them, BUT you can not help another person (fellow jw) or yourself by donating blood out of LOVE FOR fellow jws. This may still be a little over head, the pressure will be strong, but at her age she knows how to research school projects. This may get her thinking.
Has she had all of her vaccinations? About this age i think they need a booster shot. Does she know that years ago the WTS said you could not have them? But is RECOMMENDING them now as disease preventers. It is still a personal issue but there is no evil attached to them now. What about the poor babies who died from not getting them. Was that fair?
Has she ever been to another church? If she wants to go she needs to it before being baptized, becoming a publisher or giving talks on the ministry school. EVEN if YOU don't care to go, I would recommend taking her if she is curious, to one of your friends. Let her see these people are friendly and loving and love God and Jesus. Not Satanic. They are kind. They want her to have the best.
Holidays will be hard. I remember around age 9 or 10 having to take a stand out of guilt. This was before the generation understanding changed. I thought i had to choose between God and celebrating birthdays or xmas. If I celebrated, God would kill me. That reasoning shows that God is not love. If he knew my heart and how much I love him, why have I always felt inadequate? Why is it hard to accept Christ's ransom and instead feel always having to prove by works. Works cannot save us. JW may say so as well, but their actions and attitude show otherwise.
I read somones post about the field service report. If the society only has us write our hours down,placements, etc. to know the extent of work being done, Why do we need to put our names on them? If God reads the heart and we aren't supposed to compare ourselves with others so we don't get discouraged, why? Why titles of Publisher or Pioneer? If you are giving God your best why does anyone need to feel above or below their brother in Christ? Comparing is not healthful like this. Does God love us differently if we don't have the same circumstances but do our best? Why is it announced from the platform that certain ones are pioneering. I did. I was ALWAYS embarrassed by the announcement. It was something between me and Jehovah. No one else needed to know. I hated turning in the report with my name. With an ill husband and child at home i couldn't do what I had as a teenager and twentysomething. Once I had to come off the pioneer list, I was DEPRESSED for years. Didn't feel better till I left. Still suffer from low self esteem and swear I WILL NOT subject my children to that.
The circuit and district assemblies are said to be the spiritual feasts that should never be missed. Of course they are. The so called encouragement is really a beating to do more, feel less confident and a failure because others are giving experiences on stage and they are idolized. I only left when I finally couldn't bear the load and being YELLED at from the podium about if we aren't doing our best in service and regularly participating we will be killed at armageddon. NO JOKE! I had driven 3 hours with 2 young children by myself through 2 big cities (Husband had to work-Thank god, I could see the lack of love the organization shows Jehovah to have by not having his help and doing this by myself). Here I had STRUGGLED against what i thought was Satan's trap to keep from it, given my ALL to get there on time, walked a good 1/2 mile in hot parking lot with 2 sleepy and tired children too big to carry, but too little to expect so much from, Carried bookbag, children's bags, pillow and blanket (air conditioned- kids would be cold and prayed they would fall asleep), and lunch. And then yelled at. This was one of the last talks at the friday session of the 2005 d. c. I was furious. I woke up the kids, only 25 minutes left of the session and walked out. I was so furious. Still am. My husband, on his way out, always tried to do everything he could, had taken saturday off to drive me. I didn't want to go. Who would want to serve a God like this. Yet I loved God and still do. Witnesses say other religions paint him cruel-hah!
Anyway, hope this helps. Constantly remind her Jesus loves her. As a witness it is a rarity to really believe that and feel his love for you in your heart. Head knowledge is all it usually is.
Witnesses jump from scripture to scripture to prove something that isn't there. Jesus has returned invisibly for one. REALLY? The angel said he would come in the clouds as THEY HAD JUST SEEN HIM LEAVE. THEY SAW HIM!!!! Was the angel lying? Why would jehovah let an angel lie like that? and then print it in the bible if it is inspired by holy spirit? Another question that always bothered me was the whole explantion of the star leading the wise men to jesus as a boy. If they were led by Satan and evil-Why did Jehovah allow mary and joseph to accept their gifts? Jehovah sent his angel to warn Joseph about Herod. If we recieved something from someone KNOWN to deal with demons (astrology) would you as a witness accept it? No. You'd be afraid of demons being attatched to the object. Why could they?
Don't hit her with this all at once. Any pressure to NOT get baptized or go to meetings will be viewed as persecution by satan and PROVE beyond doubt for her that witnesses are right. We are SUPPOSED to be persecuted and ecspecially by family.
If you love God and have a relationship with him, talk about it a little. Find common ground with her. If she does join, maybe your life example will pull her away. It helped me. There are people out there who love god and christ with all their hearts. they have the bible. He reads hearts. I couldn't imagine him saying my grandmother or father were wicked. I have never met a nicer woman on the face of this earth. her love for others transends anything the witnesses have. Yes, love is the identifying factor of a true follower of Christ.
God bless you in this!
Kitten Whiskers
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What are you doing this weekend? Is life less interesting now?
by eyeslice inin some ways lfe as a jw was full - is life now more interesting or more of a chore?.
i have businesses to see to tomorrow (saturday) then perhaps i will go out for a few beers with my wife n saturday night.
sunday, catch up on a bit of paperwork and then perhaps watch the football (soccer) on the tv at our local pub.. .
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kitten whiskers
Hi! No, I wouldn't say life is less interesting. I am having a hard time making new friends. (stay at home mom, newer to this area) But I have much more time to read freely. Take kids to library for story hour. Less yelling and worry/hurry to eat and get to meeting on time, therefore, time to actually TALK to and LOVE my family. Put the kids in a community play over summertime (2 weeks of rehearsals and show). Our son has the opportunity to start T-ball this spring (daughter too if she wants). There is more opportunity to explore things without GUILT.
This weekend: Family time. Movie at home, board/card game. Looking through catalogs to circle things i would like for my birthday or xmas! First time I've had a b-day since i was 9. (Walked the JW line as a little girl but non-jw dad made sure we had xmas and bday till we told him---out of fear and guilt---we wouldn't do it anymore. Yeah! Fun to think about and plan. Spending time on here! Oh, and were in the south so we are going to the Waffle House for breakfast.
Kitten Whiskers
P.S. WELCOME SISTER REBELLIOUS! Didn't we have a ministry school talk together once? Maybe that sister doubtful or sister materialistic? lol Seriously, I LOVE that name! That just cracks me up!
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I'm new and nervous!
by kitten whiskers ini am new here and have been "lurking" for several months.
the discussions have helped me tremendously to break free from the society.
i want to thank you all for your help and heartfelt posts.
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kitten whiskers
Warning: This is extremely long. Please forgive me!
Oh my gosh you guys! I just checked in (feeling quite blue tonight,very lonly) and you all just picked me up and put a little wag in my tail, a little zip in my "doo dah".
Honeybee, it is like we are made from the same mold! Almost identical experiences! It was like you have a window into my heart and I appreciate so much you taking the time to reach out to me. It is so easy to read a post sometimes and agree or think of your experience, but quite another to share and build up another! I really needed that. I too have a spiritual need that must be filled for me to be happy. Unfortunatly the last couple weeks we havn't been able to go to a church. One week we were sick, the next out of state meeting witness family for a big get together. (They don't know how far we've jumped ship yet. Just think we're inactive.) So MUCH stress with all of that and I would have gone to almost ANY church while we were there to just shake out some of the jw brainwashing I had to listen to the whole time. Anyhow, here we are back home. Feeling depressed all week. Cried a little tonight about the family situation and no friends while hubby held me in embrace (yeah, a self-made pity party with all the monthly hormones to fuel it). I was so hungry to read the bible (couldn't bear to pack a NWT for the trip or my new NIV for fear someone would question me if they saw it) I grabbed the Gideon bible they wonderfully had in each of the hotel rooms to read before bed. Upon getting home though and the depression, I haven't really opened it but once to search for a particular scripture. Just lost the feeling of the wonderful message for us. Kept associating it with jws for some reason. Maybe subconsciously like i was undeserving. And then we get a friendly visit from an elder and ms today with 17 magazines and the new tract along with the dates for the assemblies (until next August!) . Thank God the ms's wife and kids came too and my kids were outside playing and so her babies wanted to so we sat outside on the porch to watch them while my poor dear hubby entertained the elder and ms inside.
Oh well. Probably time for the co visit and they must be keeping one issue of each magazine in our cubby at the literature counter to bring to us (17!) I'm wondering if they count them as placements seeing we've been inactive and haven't attended since January! I think xmas weekend was my last meeting.
Sorry to ramble, but it seems like they show up when I'm lowest.Always make me second guess my decision. But this time, I feel better. I glanced at some of the articles "Have you left Jehovah" in the september issue i think. I involuntary shake a little, but my mind, MY MIND, not theirs (like you said) tells me what an evil scare tactic it is. Follow us or God will kill you. I'm so tired of the fear. I know you are right about reading the bible (at least for me) that you see things so much differently when God directs you in your reading instead of thinking you have to have the WT interpretation. It is still hard for me to grasp. I've taken communiion twice at the newest church we've attended, and was so thankful to christ for letting me a part. But then WT indoctrination gets mixed up in my head and takes away the joy and I am a beaten broken reed once again. BUT YOU HAVE LIFTED ME OUT OF THE MIRE. You reminded me I am worthwhile even if I have lost the most dear friendships of those who know we have not been faithful JW teachings. There is no love there. Only fear. Always afraid Jehovah will kill you,instead of the love we have even as parents as you so beautifully illustrated. I will read and reread all of these wonderful posts and hold them dear. Everyone of you!
Thank you so much!
Kitten Whishers
P.S. Poppers- I never thought about that! Whiskers are great! What insight you have!